Wednesday, March 20, 2024

24 Anomalies in the Plain of Troy



"From Hısarlık, we can see several other mounds."

In Search of the Real Troy 

https://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue/200501/in.search.of.the.real.troy.htm



Below is a list of all of the anomalies discussed so far on this blog.  All of the anomalies below have been discussed already, either on the page about the Top Ten Anomalies (A) in the plain, or on the page adding Six More Anomalies (B).  I also have a page about Declivities in the Plain (C) where some of these are discussed.  Others were discussed in posts specific to them individually.  All of these can be added together to support the thesis that the plain of Troy is heavily distorted by what appear to be human interventions



1 The large mound in front of Hisarlik.  

2 The marsh in the mound in front of Hisarlik

3 The Kesik Cut through the coastal cliffs at Lisgar Marsh* (A)

4 The large berm SW of Kalafat (A)

5, 6 The two mounds west of Kalafat (A)

7 The large declivity west of Kalafat (A,C)

8 The smaller declivity between the mound and the berm SW of Kalafat (A,C)

9 The cut through the inland ridge at Besik Bay* (B)

10 The marsh SW of Kalafat  (A,C)

11 The structure in the marsh SW of Kalafat  

12, 13 The two mounds below Pinarbasi (B)

14 Judan Lake** (B, C)

15 The raised area east of Lisgar Marsh (B)

16 The strange shapes at the top of the plain (B)

17 The odd shapes near Kalafat (B)

18 The berm on Kamer Creek

19 The mound NW of the great mound 

20 The waterway that starts in the middle of the plain 

21, 22 The two sand deposits at two ends of the great mound. 

23. The raised straight line NW of the great mound. 

24. The 2.5 kilometer long mostly straight, raised line near the top of the plain.  


* technically not in the plain 

** no longer exists















Wednesday, November 29, 2023

Two more anomalies in the Plain of Troy

I noticed both of these a long time ago but have never mentioned them.  

The first anomaly is a long, straight, raised area going NW from the great mound's north end. I've circled it in the first photo below. 










I have already discussed the raised mound to the north of this anomaly.  About this one I just wonder why is it so straight, and why is it raised like that?  Could there be an ancient wall or something there? 


The second anomaly lies between Pinarbasi and Kalafat, along the eastern side of the Scamander.  .  







This is another long, straight, raised area, but this one turns a bit at each end.  It sits upriver from the great berm near Kalafat.  It is 1.5 miles, or 2.5 kilometers in length.  



Tuesday, November 14, 2023

Google Satellite View Improves our view of Ancient Troy

Last year I noted that Google had inserted a new photo of the northern part of the plain of Troy into its display of the area  This update cut across the mound in front of Hisarlik, leaving its northern half differently colored from its southern half.  

That update has been followed by another that replaces the photo representing the southern half of the mound, so that most of the plain is now represented by the newer exposure. This seems like an improvement to me.  


The image below is from last year.  Google inserted a new image of the northern part of the plain that was more green and gold colored than the older images, which are of a more more brownish reddish hue to the south, and more yellow to the west.  





The image below shows the recent update at Google Satellite View.  Google has extended then newer, more green and gold images both south and west.  We can now see the Aegean coast much more clearly.  The upper plain and Hisarlik remain in the older, more reddish brown hue.  



Below is the most recent Google image of the tell and Hisarlik.  


Below is the most recent Google image of the structure in the marsh.  






















Tuesday, July 11, 2023

Links, Links, Links


Internal Links


Latest Evidence and Arguments 

Aerial drones reveal elevation changes in the plain of Troy

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/08/aerial-drones-reveal-elevation-changes.html

On the status of the argument for the city in the plain at Troy 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/12/on-status-of-argument-for-city-in-plain.html


Two sand deposits in the plain of Troy 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2023/03/two-sand-deposits-in-plain-of-troy.html

The weird waterway in the plain of Troy

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2023/03/the-weird-waterway-in-plain-of-troy.html 

Documented growth of the marsh in the plain of Troy   

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/08/documented-growth-of-marsh-in-plain-of.html

The problem of Kalafat and Kumkale 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/07/the-problem-of-kalafat-and-kumkale.html

An unexplained structure in the plain of Troy 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2021/05/an-unexplained-structure-in-plain-of.html

Pictures of the tell at Troy    
                                       


Top Ten Anomalies in the Plain of Troy 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/01/top-ten-anomalies-in-plain-of-troy.html

Six More Anomalies in the Plain of Troy 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/05/6-lesser-anomalies-in-plain-of-troy.htm

Two More Anomalies in the Plain of Troy 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2023/11/two-more-anomalies-in-plain-of-troy.html


Ideas 

A theory about the Greek camp in the Illiad

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/08/a-skeptical-theory-about-greek-camp-in.html

Is this Homer's Throsmos?  

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2021/01/the-mound-at-foot-of-hisarlik-is-it.html


How the Trojans diverted the Scamander River 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/06/how-trojans-diverted-scamander-river.html

How the Trojans diverted Kamer Creek 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2022/06/how-trojans-diverted-kamere-creek.html


Philosophy of Science

Why this blog is not archaeology 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2021/09/is-this-archeology-blog.html

ChatGPT agrees that this blog is not science 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2023/05/chatgpt-agrees-that-this-blog-is-not.html


Legends of Troy 

Troy Towns 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2021/01/legends-of-troy-troy-towns.html

Brutus of Troy

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2021/01/legends-of-troy-brutus-of-troy.html

Hercules sacks Troy 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2021/01/legends-of-troy-hercules-sacks-troy.html

Roman and other lineages 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2021/03/legends-of-troy-roman-and-other.html

Troy Game, Troy Dance 

https://www.realcityoftroy.com/2021/03/legends-of-troy-troy-game-troy-dance.html



External Links

Was Troy a Metropolis? 

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/22/science/was-troy-a-metropolis-homer-isn-t-talking.html#:~:text=It%20was%20nothing%20like%20his,space%20and%20created%20early%20civilizations.

In Search of the Real Troy 

https://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue/200501/in.search.of.the.real.troy.htm

Ian Morris

Review of Joachim Latacz’s book Troy and Homer: Towards a Solution of an Old Mystery (2004), focusing on the archaeological issues. 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1426836


Akin Curser, et al. 

An Assessment of the Earthquakes of Ancient Troy, NW Anatolia, Turkey

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/37848

Ilhan Kayan

Holocene Geomorphic evolution of the Besik plain and changing environment of ancient man

https://www.ancientportsantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/PLACES/Turkey/Troy-Kayan1991.pdf

Geoarchaeological research at Troia and its environs

https://www.academia.edu/8568499/75_2014_Geoarchaeological_research_at_Troia_and_its_environs

The Troia bay and supposed harbour sites in the Bronze Age 

https://www.academia.edu/4620035/_24_The_Troia_bay_and_supposed_harbour_sites_in_the_Bronze_Age 

Geomorphic Reconstructions in the Environs of Ancient Troy 

https://www.academia.edu/5645443/_08_Geomorphic_reconstructions_in_the_environs_of_ancient_Troy

Frank Kolb 

Troy VI: A Trading Center and Commercial City?
Manfred Korfmann et al. 

Th/U dating of the Trojan water quarries

https://www.academia.edu/63712645/230Th_U_dating_of_the_Trojan_water_quarries

Eberhard Zangger, et. al. 

Searching for the Ports of Troy 

https://www.academia.edu/23835291/Searching_for_the_Ports_of_Troy

Artificial Ports and Water Engineering at Troy

https://www.academia.edu/25727071/Artificial_Ports_and_Water_Engineering_at_Troy_A_Geoarchaeological_Working_Hypothesis



Kesik Cut drone footage 

https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/item/147060497-field-and-coast-troy

https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/item/147061590-field-and-coast-troy

Cemsaner drone footage

https://videohive.net/item/ancient-city-troy/36742929

https://videohive.net/item/troy-city-overall-view/38111624 

Bumblebee520 drone footage

https://videohive.net/item/ruins-of-the-ancient-city-of-troy/37437553

https://videohive.net/item/ruins-of-the-ancient-city-of-troy/37437558?s_rank=168








Now there is before the city a steep mound afar out in the plain, with a clear space about it on this side and on that; this do men verily call Batieia, but the immortals call it the barrow of Myrine, light of step.  There on this day did the Trojans and their allies separate their companies. 

Now a sharp ridge rises out in front of Troy,
all on its own and far across the plain
with running-room all around it, all sides clear.
Men call it Thicket Ridge, the immortals call it
the leaping Amazon Myrine’s mounded tomb, and there
the Trojans and allies ranged their troops for battle.  

Iliad, Book II 814f  


Wednesday, May 17, 2023

ChatGPT agrees that this blog is not science

I finally thought to ask ChatGPT something helpful. 


If a person describes what they see in a photograph, are they doing science?

ChatGPT

Describing what one sees in a photograph is not necessarily considered science on its own. However, it could be a part of a scientific investigation or analysis if it is done in a systematic and rigorous way as part of a scientific method.

For example, if a scientist is studying the anatomy of a particular species of insect and is using photographs to document the various features of the insect's body, describing what they see in the photograph would be part of their scientific analysis. In this case, the description of the photograph would be part of a broader scientific investigation, and the scientist would likely be asking research questions, formulating hypotheses, and testing those hypotheses through experiments or further observations.

On the other hand, if a person is simply describing what they see in a photograph for personal or aesthetic reasons, without any scientific questions or investigation, then it would not be considered science.


If a person describes what they see in a photograph including trees, rivers, and a settlement mound, are they doing science?

ChatGPT

Describing what one sees in a photograph of a landscape, including trees, rivers, and a settlement mound, is not necessarily considered science on its own. However, it could be a part of a scientific investigation or analysis if it is done in a systematic and rigorous way as part of a scientific method.

For example, if a geologist is analyzing a photograph of a landscape to identify the types of rock formations and geological features present in the area, describing what they see in the photograph would be part of their scientific analysis. In this case, the description of the photograph would be part of a broader scientific investigation, and the geologist would likely be asking research questions, formulating hypotheses, and testing those hypotheses through experiments or further observations.

Similarly, if an archaeologist is analyzing a photograph of a landscape to identify and document the features of a settlement mound, describing what they see in the photograph would be part of their scientific analysis. In this case, the description of the photograph would be part of a broader scientific investigation, and the archaeologist would likely be asking research questions, formulating hypotheses, and testing those hypotheses through further observations or archaeological fieldwork.

On the other hand, if a person is simply describing what they see in a photograph of a landscape for personal or aesthetic reasons, without any scientific questions or investigation, then it would not be considered science.


Suppose an amateur examining a photograph spots what they think is a settlement mound. Is that science?

ChatGPT

If an amateur examining a photograph spots what they believe to be a settlement mound, it can be seen as a preliminary step or an observation that could potentially contribute to a scientific investigation. However, the act of spotting it alone does not constitute full-fledged science.

In scientific practice, observations and hypotheses are typically subject to further investigation, testing, and analysis. For the amateur's observation to be considered part of a scientific process, it would require additional steps such as:


Verification: The amateur's observation would need to be verified through further evidence, such as comparing the photograph with other sources, consulting experts, or conducting fieldwork to confirm the presence of a settlement mound.

Research questions: The amateur's observation could prompt the formulation of research questions, such as the age or significance of the settlement mound, the cultural context, or its potential relationship to other archaeological features in the region.

Collaboration: To advance the investigation, collaboration with experts or professionals in the relevant field, such as archaeologists or geographers, may be sought to provide expertise, guidance, or further analysis.

Documentation and analysis: The amateur's observation could lead to a systematic documentation and analysis of the photograph and the potential settlement mound, including measurements, mapping, and comparisons with known archaeological features.


In summary, while an amateur's observation of a potential settlement mound in a photograph can be an initial spark for scientific investigation, it would need to be followed by further steps and collaboration with experts to be considered part of a scientific process.

______________

There you have it.  ChatGPT is making roughly the same point I made when I argued that this blog is not archaeology.  I argued that spotting tells is not really science.  ChatGPT thinks it is not "full-fledged science".   I dread seeing it described as partially fledged science, so, I think it is important to just say it is not science, even if it can be understood as part of a scientific undertaking.  







Thursday, April 20, 2023

What we stand to learn about the Trojans

"Not much is known about the actual Trojans," writes Eric H. Cline (who excavated at Troy) on page 33 of his The Trojan War (2013, Oxford U Press).  

Almost no writing has been found on Hisarlik.  Romans leveled the hill when they built their city, wiping out a great deal of the bronze age remains.  Schliemann also destroyed parts of the bronze age cities.  

Outside the enclosure walls, there is another city, known as the lower city.  This area contains plenty of bronze age remains, but they have Greek and Roman constructions on top of them.  It is not easy to get to the bronze age material because lots of iron age material has to be excavated and processed first.  

Professor C. Brian Rose (who excavated at Troy) discusses this problem starting at 6:26 in the following film.  



Dr. Rose is saying that it will take "decades" to dig up a significant amount of bronze age remains in the lower town on Hisarlik because they lie under Greek and Roman era houses, and those houses "are filled with pottery", all of which must be processed. 

Conclusion: significantly more knowledge of the Trojans will not come from the outer district on the hillside any time soon.  

However, there is a huge, unnatural mound in the plain that is unexplored.  A stratigraphy study found artifacts in the plain.  There are surely more.  According to Zangger, bricks and building remains were found in the drill cores.  

No archive has been found at Troy.  I figure that if the Hittite kings were writing letters to the kings of Wilusa, and these kings lived at Hisarlik, then at one time there was an archive on Hisarlik.  If the archive survived underground into the Greek era, then Romans probably destroyed it when they leveled the hilltop and removed most of the bronze age city.  

I have been working with the thought that the city in the plain may have been destroyed in the same earthquake that destroyed Troy VI.  Although the city on Hisarlik was rebuilt, the city in the plain may have been lost for good at that point, perhaps due to flooding and/or the loss of important flood control measures.  Of course, there is evidence of earthquake damage on Hisarlik in other layers as well.  The city in the plain may have been lost long before Troy VI.  

A lot of trade took place at Troy, and writing is associated with trade.  So, there is hope of finding writing in the mound, even if it is not a royal archive.  Furthermore, if it was lost due to natural causes, the city in the plain may not have been looted.  Instead, plenty of loot may remain in the mound.  

My thesis is that there probably is a great deal to learn about the Trojans, but it will not be learned on Hisarlik.  It will be learned in the plain.  




Friday, March 31, 2023

Two Sand Deposits in the Plain of Troy

 Below is a map showing sand cover in the plain of Troy.  It also shows a few boreholes.  

The sand deposits in the plain are at the southern and northeastern extremes of the great mound in the plain.  

Both sand heaps are at critical water junctures.  The northeastern sand deposit fits into the spot where the stream of the Dumbreck meets the Kalifatli Asmak canal.  The southern deposit is at the spot where that same canal turns 90 degrees NE.   



Just a few thoughts about these.  They seem odd and unnatural to me, but what do I know?  Do flood plains have big sand deposits in them like this?  That is another question for earth scientists in the plain of Troy. I'd like to see a movie called Earth Scientists in the Plain of Troy.  Wouldn't you?  At this point I only know of one earth scientist who has worked in the plain of Troy, and that is the source of the map above, Ilhan Kayan.  
 
The elongated, southern sand deposit looks like it turns the Kalafatli Asmak.  I don't know if there is a sand dune there or just sandy soil.  The smaller, northern deposit might be meant to keep the stream of the Dumbreck to its northward side.  The village that formerly sat there is called Kumkale, or Kum Koy, which means Sand Village.  

Both sand deposits are associated with the artificial canal on the east side of the plain.  They are at opposite ends of the mound in the plain.  

The two sand deposits are two more anomalies in the plain of Troy that need explaining.  




24 Anomalies in the Plain of Troy

"From Hısarlık, we can see several other mounds." In Search of the Real Troy   https://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue/200501/in.sea...