Wednesday, June 10, 2026

Reviewing the argument for a city in the plain of Troy

Because my most recent treatment of the central argument of this blog is over 3 years old, it is probably about time to present it again in a fresh format.  In addition, my treatments of the photographic evidence are getting old, and it would be nice to present some of that again as well.  

What ultimately made this blog happen was my question, why doesn't the Kalafatli Asmak just continue down the plain alongside the Karamendere, the way it does when it is west of Kalafat?  Why does it pass a prominence and then turn east toward another prominence, rather than continuing NW alongside the Karamendere?  

Having asked that on the basis of an old map on my computer, I googled the area and saw the answer, which is visible to all eyes in the photo at the top of this blog. 

In the photo above there are two waterways.  On the left is the Karamendere, on the right is the Kalafatli Asmak.  As you can clearly see, the Asmak turns 90 degrees when it encounters a rise in the plain. It then flows around that rise to the northeast before heading north again. Meanwhile, the Karamendere begins angling toward the western side of the plain beginning in the same area around Kalafat.  It would like to flow in the center of the plain there, but cannot due to the same raised earth that turns the Asmak.  

To the west of the Karamendere one can see some abandoned river channels breaking up the farm fields, but one sees none of that on the east side of the river, and that is surely because the land on the east side of the river is elevated.  

The area between the canal on the east side of the plain and the river on the west side is a raised earth anomaly.  It is a mound that turns two waterways. That mound, I believe, contains the main part of the ancient city of Troy.  

Before we discuss the mound, let's examine more pics.  

The photo above looks north across Hisarlik toward the village of Kumkale and beyond it, the Dardanelle Strait.  Between the two hills is a road rising on an unnatural slope running uphill to the left. You can see the valley on the right coming downhill, and it should continue downhill and out to sea.  Instead it rises. 

So, the land in the valley north of Hisarlik begins rising as it passes Hisarlik, and you can also see that in the photo at the top of this blog.  

Now let's look due west from Hisarlik.



Instead of falling downhill into a valley, the land west of Hisarlik rises up. If you walk from the citadel due west down to the foot of Hisarlik and keep going, you have to climb an unnatural hill.  

This screen cap: https://videohive.net/item/troy-city-overall-view/38111624

In the foreground of the photo above we see the ruins of the citadel at Hisarlik.  Beyond the foot of Hisarlik, continuing west, the land rises to the trees along the canal.  Beyond the canal, the land continues to rise, and the lone tree in the distance is raised above the trees along the canal.  
























This screen cap: https://videohive.net/item/ruins-of-the-ancient-city-of-troy/37437553

In the above photo, we see Hisarlik in the foreground. Beyond that we see an unnatural rise in the land cut by a canal whose banks quickly rise as they pass the citadel area.  Beyond the canal the land continues to rise until it reaches the level where an isolated tree sits.  Beyond that tree is a very unlikely marsh in the middle of a flood plain.  
























When you walk west from Hisarlik you don't walk down into a valley.  You climb an unnatural hill to the unnaturally high banks of a canal, beyond which you continue climbing until you finally start downhill toward the river in the far distance. 























Going west from Hisarlik, one walks uphill from section 1 to section 6, where it might be pretty level, until you approach section 7, where you go downhill into a marsh. You then go uphill again out of the marsh in section 8, and downhill again in sections 9 and 10. You should just go downhill from Hissarlik into a valley that is headed out to sea. But you do not. If you walk west from Hissarlik, you climb an unnatural mound to an unnatural marsh, and then climb out of the marsh and go down the other side of the mound to the river.





In the photo above, the Tree in front of the Marsh is elevated above the trees that line the canal between segments 3 and 4. That change in elevation is surely unnatural and is probably caused by a buried city.

The photos demonstrate the proposition that there is an unnatural mound in the plain in front of Hisarlik. I have argued that the best explanation for the mound is a buried city.  But that is not the only support I have offered for the thesis that the mound in the plain is probably a buried city. There are other factors to consider.

To begin with, there are sizable mounds upstream from Hisarlik that also need to be explained. There are two mounds and a berm near Kalafat, and there are two mounds below Pinarbasi. These five mounds, all of which lie along the path of the Karamendere river, need explanation as well, and I suggest that they represent support structures for the city buried in front of Hisarlik. Given that the city lies in a flood plain, and that flood plains are subject to flooding, it seems reasonable to suspect that the support structures along the river have something to do with water and/or flood control. 

In addition to the mounds and declivities that indicate extensive human intervention in the plain, there are history and legends to consider. These tell of a great city in a plain, not just a little town on a hill. Plato describes a city of Troy that was flooded. 

There is also a stratigraphy study that found artifacts in drill cores from the plain. I have not yet found out which cores had artifacts and which did not. Only a few cores went into the large mound, but what little was found helps my case by suggesting that there are more artifacts to be found there.

To sum up then: The observation that there is a large, unnatural mound in the plain of Troy is supported by satellite, drone and ground based images. The thesis that the large mound in front of Hisarlik probably contains the remains of a city is supported by history and legend, by physical artifacts found deep in in the plain, and by two inferences to the best explanation. One of these infers from the large mound to its cause, a city. The other infers from the existence of other mounds and human interventions in the plain to their cause, support for a city. 



Saturday, February 21, 2026

Did the Trojan War actually happen?

I am mostly a skeptic about the Trojan War.  I've argued against assorted features of the war story on this blog.  I have not addressed the historical material much -- the archaeology and the Hittite writings are for others to assess, not me.  

But I found a recent film at YouTube that deserves a look from serious thinkers on this topic.  

The Trojan War Consensus: Do 'historians agree there was a conflict'? 


This video comes from Kiwi Hellenist

His blog features at least 3 entries that are skeptical about an historical Trojan War.  

This film argues that the consensus among historians leans toward skepticism.  Popular opinion imagines that the consensus is in favor of the thesis that there is an historical conflict behind the story.  In fact the consensus is not like that, but favors a thesis saying there is not enough evidence to assert an historic event behind the story.     




Sunday, September 28, 2025

Critiquing A New Theory of Pyramid Construction

The new theory is found on YouTube at a channel called The Great Pyramids Equation.  Most of the films there are in Russian but there are four very interesting films in English.  

They appeared over the past 6 months in the following order. 






The first two films are parts one and two of a treatment of the Great Pyramid at Giza, built for Khufu, or Cheops as the Greeks knew him.  The third film is Part 1 of a treatment of all of the pyramids, from the Step Pyramid forward.  The author also addresses the construction of large mastabas.  He sees similarities in the shafts of mastabas and pyramids and offers the hypothesis that the shafts served either as counterweight movement corridors, or else as routes for builders to use in the building process.  

The fourth film above might be the best, and its ideas are entirely independent of the ideas about counterweight systems presented in the first video. The fourth video argues that the spaces inside the pyramids are built in such a way as to drain water from the work site while the pyramid is under construction.  This idea alone seems tremendously valuable, regardless of the value of the counterweight system envisioned in the earlier films.    

I want to talk about two elements of this author's thinking independently, namely the use of a counterweight system and the use of internal ramps. In addition, the author seems to think that his ideas make those of Pierre Houdin obsolete, I do not think that they do.  

The first film above theorizes that there was an extensive system of counterweights used to hoist material uphill  The counterweights included humans, who would ride the weight down, get off and walk uphill out of the pyramid.  

One of the problems I have with this is scale.  Are we talking about every stone in the pyramid being hoisted individually up an incline using ropes and counterweights?  There are over two million stones.  That is a lot of uses of the system and the ropes.  In addition, each stone has to be brought to the pyramid to begin with, then each stone has to be attached to the system, hoisted, then detached and hauled into place somewhere.  How do the stones get harnessed into the system and then unharnessed?  I think that is a big time waster, a major inefficiency.  

As for internal ramps, this author posits more ramps than Houdin did.  Houdin has a single internal ramp that wraps around the monument at around 7% grade.  

The author of these videos posits several different ramps in the interior of the pyramid.  Those ramps need not interfere with Hourdin's ramp.  So, I believe that Houdin's internal ramp at 7% grade can coexist with this author's construction method.  

I wrote this post because the ideas presented in these films are extremely interesting and I like to share interesting ideas.  Also, the films will play without commercials on this blog.  So, I can study them often and without ads if I put the links here.  And so can you. Enjoy!  I know I will.  


11/1/25 Update: there is now a 5th film in English. It is absolutely wonderful.  No direct talk about internal ramps or counterweights.  No discussion of the need to drain water from the building site during construction.  Instead, it is a comparison of all the pyramids and their commonalities, with an argument about the gradual development of pyramid projects across time.  In particular he shows how the floors of the upper chambers of the pyramids from Djoser to Khufu are equidistant from their apexes, and argues that this fact has something to do with how they were built.  



1/8/26 UPDATE: There is another film.  It's very good.  This one concentrates on the use of counterweight systems to build mastabas.  The artist thinks the technique was eventually used in pyramids, but this film is almost entirely about how mastabas were built, including lots of early ones, but also the mastabas right next to the Giza pyramids.  










Wednesday, August 20, 2025

More thoughts on the Kalifatli Asmak

The following can be found in Heinrich Schliemann, Ilios, the City and Country of the Trojans, 1880

In the following passage, Schliemann cites another source describing the river he calls Thymbrius but we call the Kimar Su today.

M. Burnouf makes the following remarks upon the river :—“ The Thymbrius flows in the hollow of a valley between the hills of Akshi Kioi and the heights to the south. It is about 30 ft. broad. Its banks are steep; it is perfectly limpid, and is overshadowed by large trees. Its banks, which are from 10 to 12 ft. high, show two very distinct layers : first, a modern alluvium, consisting of earth washed down by the rains from the hills; secondly, below this, a thick layer of plastic clay, analogous to that which forms the soil of the plain of the Scamander. The confluence of the Thymbrius and the Scamander is not difficult to determine, since the banks are high.  During the inundations, the great polygon formed by the Thymbrius, the Scamander, and the hills to the east, becomes covered with water, which runs with great impetuosity in an easterly direction ; inundates the swamp (now rendered salubrious) to the north of Akshi Kioi; pours into the large bed of the Kalifatli Asmak, which is identical with the ancient bed of the Scamander; and forms other streams, which flow in the same direction. On the 18th of May, 1879, we saw this whole plain covered with dead trees and branches, which had been carried away in the same direction, and caught by the bushes of the agnus-cactus and tamarisk.” (Ilios pp 77-8)

Burnouf is saying that the top of the plain, where the Scamander and the Kimar meet actually flows toward and through the swamp and into the Kalifatli Asmak during floods. 





The polygon Burnouf has in mind is the area indicated with blue lines.  The water coming from the confluence of the Kimar and the Karamendere does not flow "eastward" as Burnouf says, but rather to the north. Burnouf also locates the swamp north of Akshi Kioi, but it is actually west of there. Both confusions are easy to understand if Burnouf is thinking that down-plain, toward the sea is north.  The plain is actually going NW here.  

Nonetheless, he does tell us that the uppermost part of the plain drains toward the Kalifatli Asmak during flooding events.  

The following passage is from Dr. Rudolf Vinchow's appendix on "Medical Practice in the Troad in 1879". 

The Trojan Plain is a notorious region of fever, nor can any one be astonished at this. Large swamps and marshes extend in all directions. Several rivers and rivulets disappear in them and fill the subsoil with their water. Shortly before my arrival, the Scamander had overflowed its banks and had inundated the plain far and wide. In the first week of April the whole land on its west side was still coated with thick silt and mud; all the roads were covered up, and stagnant water still stood in many places. Then the evaporation commenced, and in the evening a stinking fog lay over the plain. The various arms of the Kalifatli Asmak began soon afterwards to change from flowing watercourses into chains of stagnant pools and tanks. In short, all the conditions were supplied for the formation of malaria, for at the same time the temperature of the air increased rapidly, and at noon we had not seldom in the shade 20°, 22°, and even higher degrees centigrade [68°-71 F].  (Ilios, p 723) 

I just want to point out that it was the west side of the plain that had standing water and was still coated in silt and mud.  On the east side of the plain, the Kalifatli Asmak was flowing until it stopped.  

Perhaps the reason that the east side of the plain was not coated in silt and mud is that the Kalifatli Asmak could successfully drain that side of the plain in the 1870s. 




Monday, June 2, 2025

Glimpses of Trojan Thalassocracy

I have confessed on this blog once already that I find Homer's silence about a Trojan navy, and Trojan naval installations, such as ports or quays, suspicious.  The Greeks do not take over a riverine port on the Dardanelles of the sort that probably existed.  Instead, they land on an unprotected beach and build a naval station. 

One of the things that makes it possible for the world to still believe in Homer as a war correspondent is the fact that archeology has never found anything naval at Troy; not an oar, pully, anchor, fishhook or port. Nada. I think this is mostly due to the fact that the archaeology has been pretty much restricted to the top of the ridge at Hisarlik (where there are, by the way, lots of sea shells, mostly of the nutrition related kind, but in Troy VI of the purple dye making kind as well). Ilhan Kayan found no evidence of port facilities in his study of Besik Bay, but this was restricted to a handful of drill cores. The plain, the beaches and the lagoons have not been examined closely. 

I doubt that Besik Bay was a port because it is too shallow.  The same goes for the Trojan Bay that may have existed at the north end of the plain in the Bronze Age.  It would have been too shallow for large sea faring ships.  Only wide bottomed shore crawlers and river ready craft would have been able to dock at the riverine port of the Scamander.  The Uluburun ship, hanging only 4 feet (1.4 m) below the surface, probably could have gone up stream some distance in the Nile delta, but not very far in the port of the Scamander. The favored craft at Troy would have been more canoe like, maybe of the sort that the sea peoples and the Egyptians are using in the image from Medinet Habu.  These are wide bottomed riverine craft with low sides, a sail and the men stand on decks. Such boats have so far only been found, to my knowledge, in the Danube area on the Black Sea, around 450 miles, or 720 kilometers north of Troy.  

A nautically related oddity to note in the story of the Trojan War is that the Greeks fabricate a huge horse that is meant as an offering to who? Athena? Isn't that more appropriate for Poseidon?  Horses are sacred to Poseidon, not Athena.  

Another oddity worth mentioning is the story of Erichthonius. 

Dardanus had a son, king Erichthonius, who was wealthiest of all men living; he had three thousand mares that fed by the water-meadows, they and their foals with them. Boreas was enamoured of them as they were feeding, and covered them in the semblance of a dark-maned stallion. Twelve filly foals did they conceive and bear him, and these, as they sped over the rich plain, would go bounding on over the ripe ears of corn and not break them; or again when they would disport themselves on the broad back of Ocean they could gallop on the crest of a breaker. (Iliad 20, 217 ff)

Three thousand mares with their foals in the marshes would be around 6k horses.  And how do you get 3000 mares anyway?  A lot of stallions would have to be born to get to that number of mares, so, there are around 3000 stallions missing from this account who are nevertheless biologically implied by it.  That would make around 9k horses.  

If Boreas "covered" all of the mares, there would have been around 3000 more foals.  Could it be that only 12 were fillies?  At least we know that 60x50 makes 3000, and that a mere 50 stallions could "cover" 60 mares apiece to get Erichthonius 3000 foals.  

I suggest that the 3000 mares, if not fully absurd is close to it given that the Citadel and its associated Lower City on Hisarlik together housed between 4k and 7k people.  So, a mere two years of owning 3000 mares will get you more horses than people at Hisarlik.  

In addition, horses can do well in marshy areas, but they cannot live 24/7 in marshes.  

On the other hand, horses are sacred to Poseidon.  Perhaps the horses in the marshes are ships.  Perhaps the early kings of Troy had an inordinate number of ships, not a comically large number of female horses.  The reference to Boreas (the north wind) could indicate swift sailing vessels.  A female horse brings forth new horses. Trading vessels bring other stuff.  Homer even compares the horses to ships: "when they would disport themselves on the broad back of Ocean they could gallop on the crest of a breaker." 

I think it might be possible to read Homer as though the work engages in mytho-poetic compression of Troy's maritime economy, including its fleet and naval power, to the level of mere symbols. Perhaps these famous horse men living on a maritime crossroads were actually famous sailors.  

There are several reasons to believe that Troy had a maritime economy: 

Troy's coastal location on a naval crossroads argues for sea faring.  

Archaeology at Troy indicates extensive trade. 

The far-flung Trojan allies listed by Homer suggest connections by sea. 

Paris, according to Homer (and other authors), went to Sidon after picking up Helen in Sparta, which indicates long distance sea travel.

          In addition, the plain of Troy is too small to sustain the inhabitants of Hisarlik.  Grain would have been a major Trojan import. The Orman and Lissos river valleys in Thrace were likely grain providers to the Trojans. But that would have required supply by sea. The plain of the Granicus is another likely source and while grain from that area could have arrived in Troy by land, it would have been more efficient to bring it down the Dardanelles by boat.  

        I also want to mention the work of Fred Woudhouizen, whose reading of a tablet from Enkomi in Cyprus recounts the story of a Cyprian ship captain who battled a fleet off the coast of Lycia (Lukka) that, he says, was under the command of "Akamas of Ilion, the great enemy".  

From Early Mediterranean Scripts, which is a collection of conversations between Eberhard Zangger and Fred Woudhuizen:

Zangger: We still need to speak about the Linear D document from the time when the regular trade contacts were already disrupted and maritime fighting was going on. Things had changed dramatically. This is when the upheavals were caused by the Sea Peoples, when the merchant ships were not safe anymore. Once the trade was disrupted, we do not find any of the documents recording economic transactions anymore.

Woudhuizen: The Linear D text is a letter written by a Cypriot nauarch, an admiral, writing from Limyra, in eastern Lycia, to inform his king in Cyprus about what had been going on in the southern Aegean. The admiral had been to Rhodes to seize the port city of Kameiros, and he argues that he had a right to do so, because Hattusili III and Halpazitis, the king of Aleppo, already maintained a stronghold there. So there was a territorial claim from earlier times which he says was still valid. From there he went on to Samos, where he got beaten by the forces of Akamas of Ilion. Thus Trojan ships had advanced way south. Consequently, the admiral retreated his forces back to his first base Limyra in eastern Lycia. This is the same kind of document that we know from the last days of Ugarit, but this time we get an eyewitness account from someone in an advanced position way over west. 

Zangger: Those documents from Ugarit are only pointing in the direction of Lycia, saying that there is much trouble there, but with this letter we get first-hand information from someone who actually saw what was going on. The nauarch clearly states that the Hittite king should send a fleet and additional forces to his support, exactly as we know it from the documents in Ugarit. The last king of Ugarit says that his ships are supporting the fleet of Suppiluliuma II in a maritime battle in the waters of Lycia. Evidently, the admiral’s call for help was indeed received and followed through. Unfortunately for the Hittites, this maritime battle against the Sea Peoples was lost. This particular document provides inside information about a thus far dark period during the initial phase of the Sea Peoples’ invasions. And this artifact actually exists and is exhibited in the Cyprus Museum in Nikosia. Photographs of it have been published as early as 1971. You are the first to have been able to read this letter and published the translation in 2017. (Early Mediterranean Scripts, p 127f) 

Early Mediterranean Scripts can be downloaded here

For FW's reading of the Enkomi inscription, see: 

https://www.academia.edu/33572468/The_Language_of_Linear_C_and_Linear_D_from_Cypru 


Below is another description of Akamas from Woudhuizen, who believes the people known by the Greeks as Teukroi are the Tjekers mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions about the Sea Peoples.  

Like the Philistines and Danaoi, a part of the Teukroi evidently founded themselves new homes in the coastal zone of the Levant. At least, in the Wen Amon story from the first half of the 11th century BC, we are confronted with Tjeker settled at Dor. According to Wen Amon’s vivid testimony, they still were a maritime force to reckon with at that time, since eleven Tjeker ships were blocking his way from the harbor of Byblos when, having accomplished his mission, he wanted to return to Egypt. The maritime adventures of the Teukroi presumably dating to the period of the upheavals of the Sea Peoples call to mind the career of the Trojan hero Akamas as recorded in Cypro-Minoan texts from Enkomi and Ras Shamra/Ugarit dated to the final phase of the Late Bronze Age. Here we encounter Akamas at first in Linear C texts as a representative of what appears to be the Trojan town Malos (between Palaescepsis and Achaeium, opposite the island of Tenedos) and of Ephesos engaged in maritime trade, receiving goods at Enkomi and delivering goods at Ras Shamra/Ugarit. Next, he turns up in the more evolved Linear D texts as Akamu Ilu “the Ilian Akamas” and Akamu Eleki nukar -ura “Akamas of Ilion, the great enemy”, who in the latter instance is recorded to have defeated (tupata “he smote”) the principal of the text (-mu “me”) in what from the context appears to be a naval battle. This last mentioned passage strikingly correlates to the information from the correspondence between the king of Ugarit and his superior, the king of Cyprus-Alasiya, as unearthed in Ras Shamra/Ugarit, according to which the Ugaritic fleet is stationed in the coastal region of Lycia, but enemy ships nonetheless have broken through the defense line and are now threatening the coasts of the eastern Mediterranean. Anyhow, it is clear that Akamas from Ilion in the course of events had grasped the opportunity and turned his maritime profession from trader into raider – a common change in the history of Mediterranean shipping.

The Ethnicity of the Sea Peoples, p 109. https://repub.eur.nl/pub/7686/Woudhuizen%20bw.pdf

Akamas is like a classic pirate: both a trader and a raider. Woudhuizen gives us a hint of what we perhaps should have expected all along.  Trojan sea power of both the commercial and martial varieties.  Akamas was an enemy in the mind of at least this one speaker of what Woudhuizen argues was a proto-Phoenician, Semitic language on Cyprus. He could have been commanding a fleet that was not Trojan, I suppose.  But it also might be the case that his name went down in history. Akamas' name is attached to a promontory in Cyprus. It might be that Acamas the Greek was invented to explain this. 

The Homeric Trojans are not very impressive or threatening.  They have a royal family. They have a history that we know little about. They have a citadel and an army and allies.  But they have no navy. They allow the will of one prince, Alexander, to determine their fate, and never force him to return Helen to Menelaus. They are deaf to the warnings of Cassandra and other sober minds. They wait 9 years before charging the beach in their own defense. They stupidly bring the huge treacherous horse full of soldiers into their city and then go to sleep.  

Perhaps the image of Akamas of Ilion fighting his way from Samos to Cyprus and then to the Levantine coast will put a different shine on the memory of the Trojans. 

If there was a war in the Trojan Plain at the end of the bronze age that deserves to be remembered, it was probably about the kind of thing Akamas represents; it was probably about power, including sea power.    

I figure that the deep water ports of Troy were probably not in the plain, but in places like Canakkale, Alexandria Troas, Tenedos, Lemnos and Imbros. There is a deep water port today at Akcansa, which is only 1.1 miles (1.8 k's) south of Besik Plain.  

A person arriving at Troy after 2500 bce would have seen hundreds of shallow draft boats around Besik Bay, the mouth of the Dardanelles and the mouth of the Scamander. They could have seen hundreds more by visiting the mouths of other rivers, such as the Danube, Orman, Lissos, Caicus or Granicus. These boats, made to enter rivers from the sea, might have been able to maneuver in the shallow bay of Troy, maybe all the way up to the north end of the tell in the time of Troy II.  But the big ships would have been somewhere else. 

Woudhuizen, by the way, thinks that the Sea Peoples group that the Egyptians called Tjeker were the Teukroi and ultimately the Trojans. 

The expansion of the Trojans, first by means of trade to Cyprus and Ras Shamra/Ugarit, and subsequently by actual colonization to Cyprus, again, and the Levant, is archaeologically traceable in the distribution of Trojan grey ware – not a widely desired export product, but evidence of real presence of Trojan traders and/or settlers. This ware is found in concentrations on Cyprus, especially at Kition and Hala Sultan Tekke, in Ras Shamra/Ugarit, and Tell Abu Hawam (= Haifa) in the neighborhood of the Tjeker town Dor, in a variety dated to the late 13th or early 12th century BC. The impetus for the Trojans to find new homes abroad is formed by the invasion of their territory by new settlers from the European continent, causing the destruction of Troy VIIa (c. 1180 BC) and the subsequent (in Troy VIIb1-2) introduction of buckle ceramic. Unfortunately, the Tjeker town Dor is not well excavated: at least it seems clear that the site was destroyed in the Late Bronze Age and subsequently characterized by Philistine ware. As opposed to this, the nearby Tell Abu Hawam has been better explored and shows, next to a destruction layer at the end of the Late Bronze Age, some, no doubt subsequent, Late Helladic IIIC1b ware – the hallmark of the settlement of Sea Peoples. If I understand Susan Heuck Allen correctly in that the Trojan grey ware arrived in Tell Abu Hawam already before the aforesaid destruction layer, the Trojans evidently prospected the site in the period of their trade connections with the Levant and hence very well knew where to go to find themselves a better place to stay!

Woudhuizen, The Ethnicity of the Sea Peoples, p 109-10

I know that the Tjeker = Teukroi = Trojans identification is disputed. I am aware that Woudhuizen's readings of the Enkomi materials are contested. 

However, it is important to consider more hopeful ends for the Trojans than tradition has assigned them.  Perhaps they migrated at the end of the Bronze Age. There has long been a suspicion than they migrated to Italy and especially to Etruria/Tyrrhenia.  Others have them going to Ilyria, even suggesting that the word Ilion is found in the word Ilyria.  Still others imagine that the Trojans were the Dorians of the Dorian invasion stories.  Woudhoizen suggests that they migrated to Cyprus and the Levantine coast.  Here they would have mixed with the local Canaanite population, just as the Peleset/Philistines (another of the sea peoples) apparently did. 

Perhaps the distant offspring of some of those purple dye-making bronze age seafarers became iron age purple dye-making Phoenicians.  







Tuesday, May 20, 2025

Luwian Studies Updated Their Website

 As a result of recent massive changes to the Luwian Studies website, all of the links to their site on this blog now go to the landing page of the new site.  

None of them index the information they originally linked to.  

In addition, the new site does not contain most of that information any more.  I have no idea why.  It was an excellent resource focused on the bronze age with a set of pages focusing on Troy.  The new iteration of the site is more narrowly focused on the work of the Luwian Studies Foundation.  Very little about Troy is preserved, and the discussions of the bronze age are mostly gone.  

You can find all of the old links here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20250129005928/https://luwianstudies.org/

or go like this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20250208215359/https://luwianstudies.org/hydro-engineering-during-the-bronze-age/

Tuesday, April 29, 2025

Plato Describes the City of Troy

At one point in Laws, Plato cites Homer, then comments on him.  I recite the passage below, then comment on it.  


Plato Laws, 681e-682e

Plato cites part of a speech from Aeneas describing his royal lineage extending from Dardanus.  

Dardania he founded when as yet
The Holy keep of Ilium was not built
Upon the plain, a town for mortal folk,
But still they dwelt upon the highland slopes
Of many-fountained Ida.
Hom. Il. 20.216 ff.

...

Athenian

Ilium was founded, we say, after moving from the highlands down to a large and noble plain, on a hill of no great height which had many rivers flowing down from Ida above.

Clinias
So they say.

Athenian
And do we not suppose that this took place many ages after the Deluge?

Clinias
Many ages after, no doubt.

Athenian
At any rate they seem to have been strangely forgetful of the catastrophe now mentioned, since they placed their city, as described, under a number of rivers descending from the mount, and relied for their safety upon hillocks of no great height.

Clinias
So it is evident that they were removed by quite a long interval from that calamity.

Athenian
By this time, too, as mankind multiplied, many other cities had been founded.

Clinias
Of course.

Athenian
And these cities also made attacks on Ilium, probably by sea too, as well as by land, since by this time all made use of the sea fearlessly.

Clinias
So it appears. 

Athenian
And after a stay of ten years the Achaeans sacked Troy.

Clinias
Very true.

Athenian
Now during this period of ten years, while the siege lasted, the affairs of each of the besiegers at home suffered much owing to the seditious conduct of the young men. For when the soldiers returned to their own cities and homes, these young people did not receive them fittingly and justly, but in such a way that there ensued a vast number of cases of death, slaughter, and exile. So they, being again driven out, migrated by sea; and because Dorieus was the man who then banded together the exiles, they got the new name of “Dorians,” instead of “Achaeans.” But as to all the events that follow this, you Lacedaemonians relate them all fully in your traditions.

Megillus
Quite true.

__________________

Plato agrees with Homer that Troy was founded by persons who moved down from Mt Ida to a "plain" and seems to think it is a city protected from flooding only by "hillocks of no great height". 

The city was in "a large and noble plain, on a hill of no great height".

The ridge at Hisarlik is not a hill.  Hisarlik is a knoll at the far western end of a 15-20 meter tall ridge line that extends for a couple miles.  Its 55 feet (17 meters) above the plain seems like a great height. 

In addition, Hisarlik is not subject to perennial flooding.  The plain is. 

But Plato is emphasizing flood risk, saying that the city was beneath "a number of rivers" coming down from Mt. Ida, about which he is right.  And his point is that they forgot about the earlier flood catastrophe, which he calls "the Deluge".  

One thing I want to know is how many criticisms is he making?

Is he merely saying that they did not build Troy on a high enough height to be safe from floods? 

Or is he saying both that they did not build the city in the plain on high enough heights to protect it from floods, and that they did not protect this city in the plain from floods with anything more than "hillocks of no great height"?

These "hillocks of no great height" that were relied on for the "safety" of ancient Troy might be earthworks that functioned as flood walls.  

At some point, the city in the plain was indeed built upon a low hill because by the end of the bronze age it was over a thousand years old and many cities were on top of one another there. 

And maybe Plato has tapped into a memory of Troy's flood walls being overtopped.  He then patches up the moment of awkward encounter with an alternative tradition by bringing on the national dopamine rush of the siege myth. We can almost see the happiness of delusion return to his listeners eyes as the unfamiliar flood story is abandoned and the national myth is affirmed as "very true". 




Reviewing the argument for a city in the plain of Troy

Because my most recent treatment of the central argument of this blog is over 3 years old, it is probably about time to present it again in ...